Following the recently completed U17 Boys Regional Development Tournament, the initial 36 man squad for the England U18 Men for 2012/13 has been announced.
Made up primarily of the talented 1995 born generation, who secured promotion for the England Under 16s in 2011 and the Under 18s in 2012, they now finally have their chance to compete against Division A talent in the summer of 2013.
The squad will report for a camp in Nottingham on October 25 & 26 as the first stage of the build up to the European Championships.
Head of Performance Warwick Cann commented:
“It is good to see a batch of new talent arise from the Regional Development Program and be added to the core group for this age group. There are a number of 1996-born players and should they not make the final cut, they will certainly be included in the New Horizons U17 program later in the season.”
The full squad is as follows -
England Under-18 Preliminary Squad
Luke Attfield, Bognor Pirates
Kavell Bigby-Williams, NASSA
Nicholas Bohling, Gravelines, France
Alex Browne, Cambridge Cats
Durrell Charles, Westminster Warriors
Pak Chingwombe, Leicester Warriors
Jules Dang Akodo, Union Olimpija, Slovenia
Jefferson Davis, Barking Abbey
Ajou Deng, NASSA
Awab Elniel, N/A (South East)
Charlie Fitch, Cambridge Cats
Jack Griffiths, Bristol Academy Flyers
Lewis Halpin, Cheshire Jets
Sedale Hanson-Young, Birmingham A’s
Brandon Hitchman, Leicester Riders
Tyrell Isaacs, Westminster Warriors
George Ivens, Solent Kestrels
Myles Laurent-Smart, NASSA
Dwayne Lautier-Ogunleye, Bristol Academy Flyers
Cameron Mackay, Cheshire Juniors
Josh McSwiggan, Northwhich Jets
Ben Mead, Ipswich
Justas Muzeikevicius, London Pioneers
Joe Mvuezolo, NASSA
Luke Nelson, Reading Rockets
Ikponmwosa (Theo) Oghide, Birmingham A’s
Kingsley Okoroh, Findlay Prep, USA
Tamas Okros, Bristol Academy Flyers
Dwayne Orija, Westminster Warriors
Jon Orrells, Taunton Tigers
Rafael Saipe, Leeds Carnegie
Morayo Soluade Unicaja Malaga, Spain
Stefan Stajsavljevic, Coventry Tornadoes
Jamal Tahraoui, Cheshire Jets
Samuel Turner, Ilkeston Outlaws
Kaiyan Whyte, Lewisham Thunder
Thoughts on the preliminary squad? Let us know in the comments!
You'll probably like these :
Follow Us
Join the 8000+ others who follow Hoopsfix and subscribe.
Loading ...
{ 72 comments… read them below or add one }
Looks like a talented group. They certainly have a chance of staying in Division A
Only a chance I’m afraid. They may win games against Bosnia & Herz, and Czech Rep, but will have to win against teams such as Spain, Serbia, Montenegro, etc.
They can do it, but will have to develop very quickly as there is not much time, and the training schedule does not give them enough time together. (Typical)
You think we will beat the Czech’s they have two of the best 1995 players in Europe while also boasting some strength of younger 1996 layers as well. I think we have more chance of beating the likes of Ukraine, Bosnia, Bulgaria (although they do have Aleksandar Vezenkov) also possibly Latvia, Greece, Slovakia, Slovenia and maybe Italy… it all depends who is playing for each nation. I think Mo returning will be a massive help, the development of Kingsley (especially defensively) , Luke Nelson, Tyrell, etc, etc, I think we have a great chance of staying in Div A.
I believe they just lost to the Czech team in qualifying?
Will have to wait and see, but let’s hope they do stay up.
Ajou Deng plays for Islington Panthers, no?
I’m pretty sure a lot of the players’ teams are wrong, but as I’m not 100% sure I went with what England Basketball have said.
Is Ajou Deng any relation to Loul and Ajou Ajou Deng?
Interesting. Nobody from Manchester Magic, “the best youth program” in the country.
Does having the best youth program in the country (which Manchester probably has) automatically mean you will have the best (or even, better) players in the country?
It means that Manchester’s program is no longer the best!
Reasons for this comment?
Reasons? No one is selected for the U18 and Magic did not win U!18 final 4 for many years
So that means they do not have the best youth program?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You can only have the best youth program if you have at least (?) one player selected for the national team or have won a competition?
An interesting qualification for “the best youth program”
The fact that the club has teams and programs for all age groups, has available excellent and daily facilities, has coaches for all teams etc. etc. is not a consideration?!!
I wonder if you were ever a part of this program and did not succeed?
Just who does have the best youth program? For me, Manchester most definitely has the best youth program, the fact that they may or may not have produced national players is totally irrelevant.
Enough said I think.
You may have best facilities in the country and have teams in all age groups etc but if you do not provide players good enough to play on the international level or can’t win U18 final four for ages then the program is of a bad quality. As simple as that.
To your information I have never been involved in Magic’s program as was part of much better program outside UK so I do know what good program means.
Not my business but totally disagree, the best youth programmes are the ones that have the widest reaches, get the most kids playing and allow them to benefit from the game.
I’m sure manchester would have more chance of winning if they involved less kids at a more intense level, but that would not make them better.
and for the record i have no contact or relationship with manchester magic
So a school that enables its students to improve themselves, even though the school does not manage to send any kids to Oxbridge, is a poor performing school?
Unfortunately your definition of a “good program” is not necessarily correct. How do you qualify the program you were apparently in as a good program?
It is very clearly players left magic to go to bristol where the England Coach coaches, or to the Harris Academy where Steve Bucknall coaches as Magic do not facilitate a full time academy like that of other teams
Further this does not mean they do not have the best programme because they do not have one specific education centre as they still get the same level of coaching and practice just do not function under the ‘academy’ setting of college and hoop combined
@ Mike
Tamas Okros, ‘Bristol Academy Flyers’ is a Manchester product, but transferred to SGS College for this year. Had he not transferred he would be representing Manchester Magic.
Why has he transferred I wonder if this is the “best youth program”.
Manchester have had all age group teams, male and female, in the final fours the past two years. Doe s this say anything about the quality of their youth program?
Yes it does. The indicator of development is mostly U18 results and number of players ready to play on the international level. Magic fails badly in both. They are probably OK in teaching basic skills but not in actual development and this is sad as they have best facilities and resources in the country.
@Mike. Which youth programme does produce players to play at an international level then? Isn’t this the first time there’s no one from Manchester? Over a 10-year period (and how many programmes can even boast a 10-year consistent period), I’m sure Manchester will be up there in terms of club representation on national teams.
I guess we are talking about criteria here. If you want a good health club or want your child to learn basic skills then Magic is a good place to go. However, if you want your child to progress further then I would say it is better going to Bristol Academy (like Tamas did) or to Abbey or (in ideal case) go abroad for a good U18 program in US/Spain like Devon, Mo and Kingsley did. I am not aware of any Magic product who managed to get into a good Spanish or US U18 program (correct me if I am wrong).
The other good criteria to look at is u18 national finals as there you see the “products of development”.
Magic did not win U18 finals for ages. As to Magic’s representation lets look at figures. Nobody in the Initial squad this year. Last two England U18 squads had two players from Magic. Two players for 3 years! and one of them was Tamas who has left for Bristol. Not very many for the program claiming to be the best in UK. The same for u16 squad. I believe 3 years is enough to speak about a tendency. Please also note that speaking about the quality of the program one needs to take into consideration facilities, resources etc. Compared to others Magic has much better funding and the best facilities in the country. Do not take me wrong. I am not affiliated with any of the basketball program in UK. I just think that, given what they have, Magic as a club could do much better job and be less arrogant about the quality of the program.
All clubs could do better, one reason the standard is so low in this country.
Am surprised at the final clause of the above comment, Manchester could be less arrogant.
I was not aware that Manchester, or at least, any of its staff, were arrogant or have expressed any arrogance. Are there any quotable examples?
I cannot understand why it is that so many people are “against” Manchester as a club. If we had more Manchesters, basketball in this country might be a lot better..
Mike obviously has a bee in his bonnet !!!!
The idea that a “good youth program” is only good if it produces players that play at a national level is not only quite absurd but demonstrates a certain peculiar je ne sais quoi in thinking.
I think it is best to leave Mike with all his very flawed comments.
The end !
Given the quality of your comment I would rather agree with you. Lets stop this discussion!
@Mike. I’m always interested in actual factual data in response to claims. I actually think 3 players is not that bad in last three years. I do think you need a longer frame work for a trend. We all know about amazing programmes not lasting beyond three years (so what if you entered as an U13 and then in 3 years time you have to look for a new club?). You mention Barking (London population–we used to have East London Royals, Hackney, now Westminster, NASSA) but the idea with Barking is that players can play for different clubs (is Barking a club?), certainly at senior level. By your own measure, Bristol doesn’t seem to feature since they haven’t produced national team players at U18. They have transfers now, having been developed at other clubs so they can take full advantage of the academy structure but to claim performance at U18 final four and production of national team players as sole indicators is odd. So I can’t really see what your argument is. I think Reading Rockets probably are up there in terms of numbers; our own Sheffield hasn’t done too badly either? You are using ‘statistics’ rather strangely. And ALL the players you mentioned, left the UK at 16 so didn’t even play U18 in the UK so how can the performance of the club at U18 then be claimed by a UK club?
Many players on the current longlist for U18 play conference basketball. Are you suggesting that’s the route to international level basketball?
I don’t understand what you mean by ‘arrogant’; I thought the argument you made was about numbers as evidence. I’ll list some Manchester national team players: Tamas Okros (developed at Manchester, now transferred to an academy), Jack Crook, Josh McGinn, Aaron Gerami, John Gould, Matt Clark, Devan Bailey, Matt Williams, Josh Houghton, and many more. There’s certainly a tradition and track record there.
As a Sheffield coach, I fully respect the Manchester program and all they have done and do for the game.
Let me first correct you a bit. Two players, not 3 for last 3 years. I do not have statistics for the earlier years but still believe that 3 years are representative enough to see the tendency. There were quite a few comments from Manchester’s supporters on this and the other cites that national team coaches are biased toward Magic and therefore prefer to pick up players from South. Same was often said about the referees on final 4′s. I’ve heard these things from Magic’s coaches several times. This is what I mean saying “arrogant”. Referring to Bristol as the place to go I meant that they currently are setting up a serious program so I believe that will soon produce players for the NT. In my opinion Tamas did a right thing moving to Bristol. I believe my arguments are quite simple: if the program can’t produce players for the NT on a regular basis and win U18 national championship for many years it can’t be called the “best youth program in the country”. One can call it decent program or good program but this is no longer the best one. I appreciate what you say about the program and what they have done for the game and have no objection in this respect but what I am talking about is the development of young players to high standards capable of playing on the International level. Looking from this perspectives I can see that Magic’s program is on decline. I have nothing against the club and this is just my opinion.
There are atleast 4 manchester players that should of been selected.
As an obvious authority on youth programs, I would suggest that we all leave Mike with his own opinions. He most obviously has a “thing” against the superb job that Manchester does for basketball, (as do some other clubs).
Let’s just remember that to qualify as having a good youth program, that program MUST produce players that play for the national U18 team.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You can do whatever you want but I fail to understand why it is so difficult to comprehend what I am saying. I take one particular aspect of the program: developing the players of high quality capable of playing on international level and compare this aspect. If you take this criteria then there are some other clubs which do better. Is it so difficult to understand?. If you do not like this criteria fine. I have no prob with that. If you want to focus on how many kids got involved into the game then I agree with you completely. Magic is probably the best club in the country in this! respect. As simple as that.
Is the previous comment quite correct?
You have said, or implied, previously, a good youth program is only a good youth program if it produces players who play for the national U18 team. You have not, until now, suggested that this is just one aspect you have been basing all your criteria upon.
There are so many other factors that make a good youth program.
Not sure if you are trying to discredit all the tremendous work that Joe Forber and his staff have done throughout so many years (certainly more than 3 !!) for basketball in Manchester and in general. (I assume from the final sentence that this is not entirely the case?)
Incidentally I am or was from London and spent many years in (playing) opposition to Joe and Manchester basketball club with our own youth program.
Roy. I have thought I made my position clear. One more time: the definition of good program is subjective. I have picked up the one I’ve mentioned above. I still believe that without being able to produce players of a high quality the program cannot be viewed as the best in the country. You may like it or not but it does not really matter. You may as well pick up your definition of a good program and want to discuss things based on your criteria.
I have no prob with that. As to your question I believe that Magic has done a very good job in attracting kids to the game and in popularizing the game. Concerning the development of the international level players I have already expressed my opinion clearly enough (hopefully) so that there is no need to repeat it again. I am not anti-magic as some people suggested and not anti anything I am just trying to look at the program which is claimed to be the best in UK from the point of view of the person who got his basketball education outside UK in one of the established European youth programs. If all these Magic supporters are happy with what they have and do not want any changes to happen let it be so. I have no intention to destroy their happiness.
The definition of a good youth program is indeed subjective, but in no way can any program whether in sport or academics, be classified as good or bad solely on one particular aspect.
The Manchester program is without doubt a good youth program. Whether it is the best is arguable, but it certainly is a good youth program and has been for more than 15 years – let alone 3 !!! (and has produced quite a few national players over this time)
Just as a matter of interest, perhaps MIke will outline his much better youth program experience?
Josh McGinn got injured right before the Euros, so he would make 3.
But it’s clear this is just anti-magic stuff. ‘Stats’ are on the fiba website from many years, just in case you’re actually interested.
Absolutely not!
I have nothing against Magic. If you pick up a number of kids involved in the game then Magic is clearly one of the best. If you look at the players of the International quality Magic is not the best, at least for last 3 years. For example, the best European junior programs are those in Spain. How many magic players got involve in those? None, as far as I know. How many got involved in good US high school programs?
None. Any other European programs? None. What does that mean?
It means that in this respect Magic does not do a good job in developing the players of higher calibre.
This is all I am saying
As a matter of interest Mike, have you ever been involved in club basketball? If so, which club(s)?
Yes, I have been involved but not in UK
the england coaches can’t define players ability from how they played at the regionals because some players on that list are not better than players who are not on the list , they need to look at more games and other competiton because some player deserve to be on that list , cant believe not one manchester player got picked, with the talented players they have got its crazy ? they will always be the best youth programme end of.
Englamd must clearly have something against Manchester magic because it is a fact that they are one of the best youth programmes. At the end of the season Machester are the only team that have multiple teams girls and boys competing to win the national title. I think it is ridicolous how not 1 manchester player has been selected even though atleast 4 could be on that list easily. Clearly the england organisation must have something against manchester and this is not right!!!
Mike I have two questions.
1. Please let me know the youth program you were involved in and which you say is so good. So we all can compare.
2. This question just needs a “yes” or “no”. Do you consider the Manchester youth program a good youth program?
I was involved into one of the top European programs. It does not matter which one but I can assure you that it is comparable in quality with the leading ones like Barcelona or Unicaja or the like you name it so it is rather unfair to compare that to Magic. One needs to have comparable resources or coaching staff of the same quality. Magic has neither. I am talking about the model and criteria. Therefore to answer your second question one needs to have a well defined measure of club being good or bad.
Simply saying “good” or “bad” does not make much sense. If you personally like the club go for it.
If I want my kid to learn basketball basics than magic is a good place to go. If we talk about the advanced development I would look for smth else. Now it is up to you to decide whether it means that magic is a good club or not.
In fact I believe that I in some sense have answered your question in my previous comments.
Obviously Mike no longer plays basketball, he is a politician!!
Of course one cannot compare any club program in this country to that of Barcelona or Unicaja. I would be very surprised if one could equally compare the program of which Mike is a product to these two clubs. But, we cannot do that !!!
Completely incorrect of course to say “One needs to have comparable resources or coaching staff of the same quality” to say if a youth program is good or bad.
This would only be applicable if one is saying which program was the best, NOT if one is good or bad.
Oxford (uni) is good, but does that mean that Sheffield (!!) is bad? Of course not.
However, Mike is correct in his implication that good or bad is a personal opinion, so I will leave it at that and let Mike have the very last word !!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have noted that Mike has been very reticent about certain things.
However, he is not writing about a program being good or bad, he has been writing about the best youth program, and, I suppose, it is arguable as to whether Manchester has the best youth program or not. (in the country)
According to Mike, “one needs to have comparable resources or coaching staff of the same quality. Magic has neither”
Magic has neither?!!!!!!!!!!
Manchester has by far the best resources of any club in England.
Mike also goes on to write ” You may have best facilities in the country and have teams in all age groups etc but if you do not provide players good enough to play on the international level or can’t win U18 final four for ages then the program is of a bad quality. As simple as that.”
So simply because Manchester has not recently provided international players (is this true anyway?) the club has a BAD quality program?
He then writes “The indicator of development is mostly U18 results and number of players ready to play on the international level. Magic fails badly in both. They are probably OK in teaching basic skills but not in actual development”
Manchester are OK in basic skills but not actual development?
Young players who come in to the club at, say, age 10,12, whatever, do not develop? They learn how to pass, dribble shoot etc., but they do not develop? Of course players in the club develop, it is a complete fallacy to say its players do not develop.
I assume Mike means that, in his opinion at least, Manchester does not develop players, sufficiently, for INTERNATIONAL competition, but if this is the case he should be more precise..
I am not sure what club does, consistently develop players for international competition.
Mike also writes about a 3 year period. Personally I would take a far broader view and look at how programs have performed over 5, 10, 15, 20 or more years. If one takes this much broader view Manchester has probably produced as many international players as any club.
Manchester has probably been written about on hoopsfix more than any other single club in the country and this must surely be a tremendous compliment to the club itself.
It is in the English basketball psyche and culture to denigrate a club whenever it has any form of success, in either club representation, program development, promoting the sport within its own immediate environment, or gaining any type of finance or sponsorship. (I have had plenty of experience of this !!!)
Manchester is a prime example of this.
So, to go back to Mike’s original opinion, that Manchester is not the best youth program in the country, I would respectfully totally disagree.
But, as he says, it is a purely personal view.
Lastly (!!) I could argue certain points about Academies (which are not clubs) in this country and ask the question what, actually, defines a “program”?
Roy. You misunderstood most of my arguments. Saying “neither” I meant compared to the top junior programs in Europe. Would you argue that? I agree Magic has by far the best resources in the country! Then it makes me wondering why having all that they do not really produce players of international calibre or do it on a rate comparable to the other clubs with much more limited resources. It is great that kids learn passing, dribbling etc but saying development I meant the advanced development!. I was hoping it was clear from the context. Just tell me if ANY! of the Magic players has EVER! been enrolled into a top Spanish junior or American high school programs like Devon, Mo, Kingsley and some others. I am glad that you agree that the definition bad or good is a personal choice. So according to this choice I would bring my 10-12 y.o. kid to Magic to learn basics but for my 15-16 y.o. kid being played b’ball for several years I would look for smth else. Again I am NOT! anti-magic. I am just trying to be honest and objective. I have taken last 3 years just to see the tendency. I have no stats for the previous years. Maybe
Magic has produced larger number of NT players compared to last 3 years. I personally have’t heard that anybody from Magic had ever impressed on the Europeans like Richards, van Oostrum, Mo Soluade, Luke Nelson, Kingsley and some others did. Correct me if I am wrong. Again we are talking about the club who has best! resouces in the country.
Wow. Very interesting reading. I will agree with Mike that to be considered the best programme you do have to produce quality players good enough to be selected for national teams, of course you do. Otherwise it’s just a case of quantity not quality. I will also concur that Manchester has not always produced the best individual players who can perform well at international level, they do tend to rely on an ultra agressive, pressing fundamental style where individual skill has even been supressed at times. This leads to success at club level but perhaps these players are to ingrained with the ‘Magic Style’ to excel at international level. Perhaps. Of course Manchester have produced a decent amount of players to England teams over the years.
HOWEVER. Taking everything that I can think would be used as criteria into consideration, participation figures, facilities, consistency, longevity, national titles, Final Four appearences AND national team representation: GMYBC are BY A COUNTRY MILE the best youth programme in the country!!
Mike, what other programme in this country even comes close to their acheivements…….?
I would, finally on this topic, mention just one so important point that Mike has made and which I have made for so many years.
“Quality not quantity”
This is something that the EB have never seemed to grasp. Unless, and until, our junior basketball uses this phrase as an objective, instead of the other way round, basketball in England has zero chance of developing into anything that will challenge Europe year on year.
The present junior league, both in its organization, structure and playing standard is horrendous, as it has been for so many years now.
One has to wonder why the EB officials responsible for this, are still employed.
I agree. I would only add that your remark is applicable to Magic more that to any other club simply because they do have more resources and and much better facilities compared to the other clubs.
By the way I have to correct myself. I have just learnt that one of the Magic products was recently involved into a one of the top Spanish programs. Unfortunately I do not remember his name.
Very unfortunately, Mike has chosen to associate my comments with Manchester basketball club.
Just to be clear. My comment was about the EB specifically and junior basketball generally and was, in no way, pointed at Manchester.
I have already made my opinion on Manchester basketball club very clear.
Seems clear to me that Mike does not like Manchester. He posted a negative comment about the Manchester youth programme hoping that it would provoke others to voice similar anti Manchester thoughts on this thread.
Clearly this has not happened & he has been made to look rather stupid.
I am sure that everyone involved with the Manchester programme is very proud of the number of youths they get through the doors of the centre each week & their success at reaching the final fours across the different age groups in both girls & boys competitions must mark them as probably the best in the country.
They have produced a number of England players over the years & are no doubt proud of these individuals but I am sure that the main focus of a successful club must be to develop teams & improve overall performance rather than to concentrate on single players.
Mike commented that another criteria for judging how successful a youth programme is, involved the number of players who go on to play on schemes/ college programmes abroad.
One point that noone has made so far is that by the age of 18 surely most players know that education is the most important thing? Chances are they are not going to be able to make a living out of basketball & therefore the best course of action is to obtain decent A level results & apply to the best Universities they can in this country?. It’s common sense;- if you had a son for example who was still harbouring dreams of being an international football player at the age of 18, without having been picked up by a club earlier it would be time for a reality check! Same here, I am afraid.
These are obviously just my thoughts but I think a club is successful if it consistently produces good players & performs well in the national league.
Hopefully, a lot of the players will continue to play & enjoy baskeball for years afterwards while continuing with their education.
If you believe that I care how I look in your opinion you are wrong. I could not care less. I made several arguments above and do not want to repeit them again. It looks useless as you simply do not listen or do not understand. Just one thing. Being in top Spanish or American junior program does NOT! mean that each and everyone is dreaming of making a living out of basketball. Only small number of kids who played for Bacelona, Real, Unicaja etc become professionals. Even if you are accepted to the program does not mean you stop your education. Moreover, clubs pay for your education.
As to Magic the fact that the
club with best resouces and facilities for all these years did not produce even a single player who got involved into top European or American hogh school program (unlike some other clubs with much limited resouces!!!) speaks for itself. Simply being in NT is not enough (they do not do even that for last 3 years). If you are happy with Magic and just want to play on a decent court go for it. If you want to really advance you may go there as well but your chances of being a player of international calibre will be very small. It is up to you to decide.
I could not agree more with the previous comment expressed by Roy.
It is very noticeable that Mike has on a number of comments, said what a good program he was part of, but has made no mention of it despite a request from someone. Come on Mike, let us know so we can judge if it is of best quality!!!
As I have said it was one of the top european ones so it can hardly be compared to Magic or anything else in UK. Happy?
People would probably like to know a specific name. I know I would.
Also did you coach or play for this programme?? If you did play in the programme what was the highest standard did you play to??
You can assume any of the top European program and it will be about right. Specific name does
not make any difference. It is just a matter of principle.
Ok if you don’t want to mention which programme it was could you shed any light on –
-Which country was it in?
-When about where you involved?
-Where you a player, coach or administrator?
Again all that is irrelevant. You may assume Barcelona, Unicaja, Partisan, Efes or Findley prep. whatever you like more. All are comparable. I have played as a junior quite some time ago (unfortunately) and has never been involved in basketball since then.
I have just followed UK basketball, youth in particular for quite a few years as a spectator
@Mike – If you had a kid that was between 10-12 years old and you could plan out his basketball development route what would it be??
Could you give me a breakdown of specific clubs and ages that you would enroll your ‘kid’ into.
If you are from south then NASSA would be OK. In 3-4 years I would take the kid to Barking or Bristol.
If you are from the North then Magic would be OK for initial development and then I would also try Barking, Bristol or Reading. Reading for example has a very good coach, Samit. He is way better then any of the Magic ones and is one of the best in UK. Ideally I would try Europe. Of course it is all very subjective
So you’re saying that Manchester is in the top programmes we have in this country?
I guess I’ve answered your question clearly enough what I would do in terms of the development path
First, Manchester also has very good coaches. Second there is absolutely no way that the three clubs you mention (and have only been in existence for such a comparatively short time to Manchester) can even begin to compare to what Manchester have done for basketball over so many years. To “try Europe” is ridiculous to suggest since to “try Europe” you would need to be of a standard that just a very few English kids can achieve. Thirdly, as you are not prepared to back up what you say by giving the program you, apparently, were part of, your comments are devalued. I am quite sure that “your program” would not even come close to those in Spain that you mention. Whether it was in fact better than any English club can only be presumed. How many of the players in your program played for their national side (of course we can only take your word for any answer).
Mike, your comments are made quite obviously to cause argument and in this you have succeeded. Well done!
I guess we are going on circle here. Just read what I’ve written more carefully. Magic has probably done good things in the past but I am talking about NOW! and NOW! I would not send my kid to Magic for the Advanced! (not basic!) development. Saying “try Europe” I meant talented kids capable of doing that. Putting the kid to Magic you decrease his/her chances to play on a really international level. In other words, Magic is not very helpful in developing talented players with big potential as they do not focus or do not know how to focus on individual development. Whether you devaluate my comments or not I do not care. Looking at reaction many people took it seriously. It is up to you anyway. I think I’ve spend enough time answering your not terribly deep comment. That was the last one.
I think that Manchester are a good community club that in another country will be a feeder to a bigger elite club. They have good facilities and decent coaches, but they are no world class experts and, therefore, cannot produce or develop players above certain level. The fact that there is nobody from that club that ever achieved ACB or NBA standard, or even a Euroleague one, confirms that. Perhaps this is the reason why Jeff Jones moved away and set-up a BBL club with the view to provide opportunities for the better talents to play at the top level (in the UK). There are very few coaches in the UK, if any, that can be put in the category “world class” and until this is improved dramatically the best talents will continue to go abroad. And who can blame them!
Tend to agree.
There are, apparently, two commentators with the name JohnB.
The above comment was from another JohnB and not JohnB who has previously commented.
Perhaps I will comment with JohnB1 to avoid any confusion !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Incidentally, I believe there were other reasons that Jeff Jones left Manchester.
Agree with Mike. Enough is enough.
Mike has not played for many years, will not give any account of his own youth basketball, for some reason, and his comments should just be taken at face value. Everybody is entitled to his or her opinion, right or wrong, including Mike.
Personally I would have thought that it was of far more importance to concentrate on the appalling standard of junior basketball and the effort the EB are making to remedy this, rather than criticize a club that has done so much for English basketball (however limited Mike seems to think that is).
Most comments seem to be against Mike, but who cares anyway.
70 comments would seem to have covered all bases. Let’s hope that this is the last comment!!
‘It may help the discussion of the Manchester programme to look at their website page Player Honours: http://amaechibasketballcentre.com/TheClub/PlayerHonours/playerHonours.php . This will give some indication of the quality of the Manchester programme over the last 13 years. Jordan Whelan and Jack Crook have been the most recent of their players to be Statesbound.
I do know that, in the past, the Manchester programme has always favoured the American route, rather than Europe, because of the educational side of the issue, which has always taken priority at Manchester, which may explain why there have been so few of their players going to Europe. I do believe that they are looking more carefully at Europe for their future player placements.
England Basketball list a camp for the U17′s – who is attending that? Have not seen a published list anywhere? Does anyone know the answer?
This is released before Easter usually
{ 1 trackback }