If, like me, you are a sucker for UK hoops and love to delve into ‘the state of the game’, BBC 5 Live aired this interesting feature on the future of British basketball last night.
Darren Fletcher is joined by Mark Woods, Assistant Editor of MVP Magazine and BBC Sport’s Chris Mitchell to look at the long-term future of Basketball in the United Kingdom and what legacy the Olympics has left. They also bring on Paul Blake, Chairman of the British Basketball League, hear from Luol Deng after the Games and Devon van Oostrum on his decision to leave the UK for Spain.
Have a listen here (or right click & save target/link as) and then let us know your thoughts in the comments!
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{ 16 comments… read them below or add one }
Excellent discussion. Most of the major points as to why basketball has struggled in this country were covered. Critical point was funding and the clowns at the purse strings, equestrian £13m give me a break! Basketball at just £6million, a fraction of cricket and rugby with similar participation levels. Yes Europe and America have a much greater pedigree than us but the fact is kids are not being given the chance to play let alone excel and thats the real tragedy. Also the urban/aggressive nature of the game is certainly a factor in the general public’s and more importantly government bureaucrats failure to engage with the sport. Considering our dire infrastructure the success we have achieved is pretty miraculous!
Interesting discussion….with, for a change, the ‘right’ questions being asked in a public (media) forum.
However, I have heard these discussions and comments being aired and made for the past 20 years…THEY ARE THE SAME s***, different day/year!! Nothing has changed and it will not change. The money that has come into the sport has been ‘wasted’ – let’s not give the list of specific examples here. But Henry mentioned the ridiculous OBI, that was over £10m; over the past 5 years EB and GB have had £16m+ together for basketball in this country. The game hasn’t moved on has it…the same people are still around doing the same (volunteer) things in the same ‘hot bed’ pockets of the country. BBL clubs have come and gone; so many underfunded, so many with no coaches (Fab IS a player-coach!); standard of play and promotion not improved, in fact, gotten worse (except maybe for Newcastle and only one or two others).
A couple of the guys commented on the broadcast about the sporting culture and psyche of this country and it’s sports fans (I didn’t buy the bit about the funding personnel being the rugby, cricket, old school tie brigade…)…they will never embrace basketball, en masse, ie. in the numbers that we need. Forget about trying to have basketball ‘look like’ it does in several other European countries…Spain is off the charts in terms of love of the game, enthusiasm and money (I don’t know how they still do it given their economic woes, same goes for Greece and their league and Turkey). Lithuania….it’s their national sport!
No, we have just got to do a MUCH better job with what we have (as I think Mark Woods touched on…)…that therefore falls back onto the Governing body of the sport, ie. EB for all these years where nothing much really happened to promote the game and more recently GB, who whilst not having a remit for ‘grass roots’ and the development side of the game, still wasted a bunch of money which they could have used better, elsewhere…why theferore have an Under 20 set up if not for so-called ‘development’ and then not even ‘bother’ to run it / fund it properly?
Finally, and this is a UK Sport and Sport England mantra that I’ve been hearing about for at least 10 years…it is coaches and good coaches that produce players…no body really cares about coaching in this country…the sports who have figured it out, eg. Cycling, Rowing, they’ve invested in the importance of good coaches for a while now; boxing – the ‘unknown’ coach of the Olympic boxing team suddenly starts to get some recognition….but he’s been doing his thing for years in some back street gym somewhere…nobody cared about him…we’ve got coaches like that dotted around the country, and have had for ages (in our sport too).
Unless and until there are full time professional jobs for coaches with proper facilities, ie. money to fund proper programmes – long term, enough affordable court time in decent gyms, improvement in administrative structures and an improvement in competition (that’s the tough one)….then nothing will change. The word ‘legacy’ is a fallacy, a media-friendly soundbite, a government created spin, a fallacy actually. Say it often enough and have it said often enough by certain talking heads and the masses will (start to) believe it…modern life….where perception is the new reality!!
Some facts for your entertainment:
Out of the 15 coaches that were on the GB rosters this year (Sr. Men and Women, U20 men and women, Futures men), only 5 were British. The S&C for the men was USA as was the video coordinator.
Our “High Performance Mgr” is Canadian (and not even based in the UK); The “Performance Director” is Australian; The “Head of Performance” is Australian (take a look at Dave Ryan’s blog).
You don’t think that with a combined record (for all GB teams) this summer of something like 15 and 50…there weren’t some British coaches who could have done just as (bad) well??!!!
So why is it that…out of the 30 coaches of the 10 men’s Olympic teams (exclude GB, see above, and the USA) only 6 coaches were not natives of that country.
Out of the 27 coaches of the 10 women’s teams, only 2 were not natives of that country.
Out of the 50 coaches in U20 men Division A & B, only 3 coaches were not natives of that country.
Out of the 48 coaches in U20 women Div. A&B, only 2 coaches were not natives of that country.
What a joke we are….
Brilient read loved and hear everything your saying in your comment State of the basketball in the UK is just a joke. Basketball in England is run as a pass time just to keep the few locals who enjoy it happy that’s just the way I see it. If you take just the small fact of the basketball games never making it onto BBC1 as a starting point you will see what I mean. Do just enough to keep basketball fans happy and it will soon blow away and then all eyes are back on the football.
The Performance Director is not only foreign, he is not even a basketball person. Read the British Perfromance Basketball´s srategy, in particular the sections about development of coaches and officials. The outcome is clear – no British referee was considered good enough for London, and the coaching achievements are documented above. Who is actually evaluating this besides UK Sport?
Why should basketball (or any sport) expect to receive funding as of right?
One has to remember that a few years ago, funding to the EB was cut by Sport \England because of the overall performance of the EB in its administration of the game in England.
It was not cut because of performance figures.
Sport England had had enough of dealing with the EB.
Anyone who listened to the Chairman of the BBL will now realise just why the BBL is in the state that it is in. The BBL needs to have a proper “figurehead” in charge if it wants to sort itself out.
Some of what was said in the podcast was not correct. Basketball was much more popular in years gone by than it is now. The BBL is nowhere near the standard of the past National League. Spectator numbers are less now than at times in the past. Now there is no sponsorship.
8 million pounds was spent to help GB achieve in the Olympics. This money was never intended for grass roots basketball. GB is a separate entity to English basketball.
Now, whatever funding will be available for GB will be used to enable the team to qualify for RIO, which is most unlikely.
Money cannot just be given out without some form of return. Winning one game in the Olympics is not a sufficient return for money spent.
Almost everybody is criticizing GB, but in reality the basic fault lies with the EB (and Scottish BB). It is the EB who have the responsibilty to produce players of sufficient standard to be selected for GB, and here it has most obviously failed.
Funding is most unlikey to be increased to the EB as it has done nothing over the past years to justify any increase.
Where are the, English, players who are of such standard to be selected for the immediate future FIBA qualifying tournaments? Nominations for Centers, forwards, guards please?
In the pocast it was suggested that facilities need to be built for basketball, but there are plenty of good facilities in which to play the sport. Surely, the problem is that these faciities are not cost effective or easily available. – Unlike in Europe.
There is no doubt that the BBL at present is led by amateurs trying to pretend they are professionals. If, as has been suggested elsewhere, a person of some authorirty, vision, political know-how and awareness, and with a hard headed approach and connections to business could be appointed, maybe things might change.
What is not required is a person steeped in education or academia. Basketball now must be viewed as a business not a vocation if it is to be run professionally..
Everybody is for ever talking about GB, T16, Futures, etc., that is, talking about the top of the sport, but what should be talked about, especially for the long term future of the sport, is the foundations, the grass roots, the junior men and women.
Until this starts to take priority, the future will not improve.
John B…you are absolutely right.
EB, like so many of our other bureaucratic institutions in this country, just prognosticate and procrastinate, spout rhetoric, sit in meetings, produce documents…and this is seen as “governance”…the result is nothing actually gets done. You know, tangible things that we can all see working or at least active.
This has been their M.O. for 30 years. Name me one so-called “Development Officer” (sic, really and almost an oxymoron!), that has actually activated any development? Yet, there have been these people in salaried positions for years now…what do they actually do?
Have you seen how many people are employed by EB these days? It is UNBELIEVABLE!!
It beggars belief that our basketball federation, with our standing in world basketball, has to be run by more people than several of the top European nations’ federations…check it for yourself.
What a waste…of money and of resources.
They have never really cared about development, because if they had, much more investment would have and should have been put into the professionalisation of coaches and to help the sustainability of (junior) clubs. Also, the support and enhancement of the NBL D.1 as a much more professional, robust, competitive, financially and commercially vibrant league.
I know everyone moans when people who were around and knew the scene back in the 80s start to wax lyrical about the ‘good old days’….but of course they were, that’s a fact. Clubs in the NBL D. 1 were proper clubs, ie. most of them had men, women and junior NBL teams; the leagues were all national leagues (note, Junior ‘ball over the past few years diluted by the regionalisation rubbish), and were of a better standard up and down and more competitive with better players …etc ….you’ve all heard the stuff before.
BUT, guess what, all the ‘proper’ basketball countries in Europe STILL have that model as their norm…if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. What makes us think that we should do things differently, especially when they don’t work…and especially when we HAD the system in place back in the day in the first place?!!! Aaarrrgghhh….help!
As far as I am aware the clubs in Europe are not funded or supported through their federations but by sponsorship and funding from local authorities. The federations have funding to run the leaguesand various other programs. I agree that EB has poor reputation but are they responsible to find money for the clubs?! It seems that the sport went downhill after BBL separated from EB and both organisations lost credibility. The other sports mentioned in the program are a lot more agressive in their development projects because they have a lot more money to spend on coaches, equipment, etc. Competing with footbal, rugby and netball at school level is tough these days. My critique to British Basketball is that they missused huge opportunity and funding. We are talking about the number of people employed by EB – a lot, true, but on very low wages and at least working full year around. The GB staff is paid a lot more for a summer job really and this creates hostility within the sport which is not healthy. If the results were there it would have been another story.
But they (EB) are not very productive are they? Plus, how do you know they are “low wages”? As Roy mentioned, it’s irrelevant about the scale rather if you are employed to do a job….you do it 100% properly…
I totally agree with you about your misgivings re: GBB…what are those guys doing the rest of the year?
The EB development staff is paid somewhere around 20-25k I believe as I have seen some jobs advertised on their website, some others way below that. The GB jobs were in the range of 50+ with Spice earning perhaps well over 100k. So, there is a huge difference but I agree that you take a job like that not just for the money.Mind you, being based in Sheffield would restrict the pool of good candidates for sure.
John76, I’m with you on these threads Bro’, but you are way out with your numbers for the GB jobs! They don’t get anywhere near that. Mind you, still got the wrong people in there…regardless of salaries.
Maybe you are right but I am sure that the performance people are paid very well and in accordance with the UK Sport’s policy. The job advertised on their website some time ago was 55k. Knowing that 99% of the people in the UK do basketball for free and on top of their other jobs, it feels like a lot of money for working part-time and not delivering results. We just have to find a way in this country to move forward and have a proper system lead by the right people. As the past 6 years showed us, funding just the national team on the top and investing only in foreign experts with no proven record and in players based overseas does not change much. I wander what will be the next strategy and who will lead on its delivery. Of course funding will have to be confirmed first!
John76 is correct re European clubs and sponsorship.
I am not sure if “fortunate” is the right word (!!), but, anyway, I was fortunate enough to be reasonably involved in basketball in the 80s and, as I have said many times, I can vouch for how much better the game was then, than it is now. (It was vastly better in playing standard)
All national league clubs were professionally run, had their own junior programmes, and attracted many more spectators. Clubs printed professional programmes that were either given free or purchased by the spectator, and, of course, clubs were sponsored.
Because clubs had their own junior teams, playing in a junior national league, game days would see a programme of a junior mens game between the respective clubs, followed by a womens game, followed by the senior game. A full afternoon of basketball. (What more could one want !!)
Clubs were playing, and competing with degrees of succes in three European competitions.
Every Christmas we had the World Invitational Club Championships, attracting top clubs from both Europe and the US and games were watched by a packed house at the Crystal Palace National Sports Centre.
I cannot speak for other clubs, (although I have reason to believe they were the same) but for our own club, the senior team coaches were paid a good salary, along with house, car, etc. (for non-English coach)
The demise of the sport without doubt started when the EB (EBBA) allowed the National League to split away and become independent, renaming itself the BBL.
The BBL, in similar fashion to the Spanish ACB is a completely separate entity and now has to stand on its own two feet.
At the moment it is using crutches.
We have to be careful not to confuse British Basketball, GB, and EB. The EB certainly have huge numbers (comparartively) of personnel, a number of whom are not in the least effective.
Whatever level of salary is paid is not an excuse for not doing the best job possible. The position, at the given salary, was accepted, so do the job to 100% or leave.
Once again, I maintain that the ONLY way the development of basketball will improve, is when the effort is put into the “grass roots”, that is, the junior players (boys and girls)
I disagree that a national junior league will cost a lot more financially, especially if it is done on a North and South basis. In any case, if travel and cost are the only concerns, then let’s stop everything now, because until we get a QUALITY league, as a foundation to the sport, there will be nothing on which to build for the future.
The BBL should have the moral fibre to insist that, all, BBL clubs should run junior programmes and the EB should have the courage to insist on a junior national league.
But I know I am wasting my time !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
John Amaechi put some of his money in Manchester to support Joe Forber and it works for years. Sabonis and Marchiljunis have their own academies and clubs in Lithuania, Tony Parket funds his club in France, etc, etc….Will any other high earning British superstars invest in that way? Luol, Freeland, Betts? Will we ever host a youth European championship to give our players the opportunity to compete at home rather then always go to Eastern Europe?
My point about salaries was with regards to the quality of people they can hire. GB has the funds to do that while EB does not (or prefers to spend less). Mind you, 3-4 “performance” people for 2 senior and 2 U20s teams is a bit silly.
How many high earning players are there?
Why should they put their own money into a dying plant?
Very few players put back in to basketball what they take out of it – unfortunately. Players such as Jimmie Guymon, John Amaechi, Karl Brown, Steve Bucknell, are few and far between.
I just gave exampe with a few. By investing some money in ther own club or academy, their name lives longer and they give something back to the community. All French players went back to France during the lockout and played for next to nothing, Spanish and Turkish guys also went home, They support their country, their federation, and their youngsters. Luol is doing plenty already in Africa with his foundation, but we still don’tb have this culture in our country where players will fell attached and loyal for life. I was hoping to see it built over the past 6 years. Perhaps having too many bosses and organisations is an issue and having one British Basketball may sort this out in the future.