Does basketball in the UK need fresh ideas?
In the last few months, I have had a few emails from Des Williams (bio at the bottom of the article), discussing the state of the game in the UK; he has some very interesting insights and has provided me much to think about. Anyway, I thought there is no point discussing this stuff behind closed doors so wanted to publish this piece he sent me last week to perhaps serve as a talking point for everyone. Take a read and share your thoughts at the bottom with a comment!-Sam
Basketball in the UK needs fresh ideas. There are people in place that are there only because they were at the very first basketball game in 1891 with Dr Naismith. A wholesale clear out of some of the faces in the sport and a trimming of the “Old Boys Network” is needed if the game in the UK is to move forward.
I look at the real basketball people like Joe Forber, John Collins, Betty Codona et al and ask myself “Why aren’t they up there pulling the strings and taking the game forward”. The answer I get is that maybe they’ve heard it all before and have been banging the drum for so long about the state of the game that the “new” generation of basketball people have started to ignore them…. I think that’s folly of the highest order.
My beloved sport is currently stuffed with fakers, hangers-on and the terminally marginally qualified because, well … it really looks good on their CV and in some cases really pays well. These people are full of talk about the 2012 Olympics and T16 and are distracting us from the real issues around the game, their incompetance. They are the main reason why the sport is being held back.
Every year I hear the same old comments about the game needing to be expanded, England Basketball needs to promote the game more and the old chestnut “we need to make the game inclusive to all”.
Warwick Cann, Performance Pathways Coordinator for British Basketball and England Basketball said “This is another important stand of our T16 strategy, and it is a further illustration of how we are trying to improve the basketball pathway within the UK. The sport has a unique opportunity through the Olympics in 2012 to kick on, however there must be a structure in place to make this happen and fundamental to this is having as many top level coaches as we can…..”
Hello, newsflash Warwick, we’ve all heard the same thing for years and you’re advocating for us to listen to it all again till 2016. The game is now the third most played sport in the UK behind Fishing and Football. It’s been that way for the past 30 years!
We cannot do anything more about expanding the sport so change the record.
Let me start at the top of the sport. England Basketball are the governing body of the sport and I’ve fallen foul of them in my time. Yes, they have faults but when you’re responsible for the governance of 2.5million basketball players, you’re going to make mistakes along the line. EB have no desire to be involved in the day to day running of a club, just like FIBA or even FIFA. Simple concept to understand and one that some fail to comprehend and because they have nothing better to moan about see EB as the scapegoat.
Then there’s the National Team Age Group set up. We have no National Academy and that surprises me a great deal when you look at the Board of British Basketball and some of its staff in key positions. If it’s about funding then maybe someone should look at the expenditure incurred flying coaches etc across the pond on “scouting missions” and maybe fund the role of a National Academy Director instead.
Setting up an National Academy is easy to do and funding for it is reachable. Maybe its not being done because to do it would mean highlighting the weaknesses of the people for all the cheap talk.
The BBL is set up with a board of owners that are are responsible for overseeing the “pro’s” and working alongside EB, so why isn’t there a similar board of owners for the National League Divisions.
Our National Team is full of players plying their trade overseas and why not. Good on them for making a career out of their skills. But what about the ones that don’t make it abroad? I know of a number of players that have returned to the UK and then left the sport altogether after failing to secure spots on BBL teams.
In my line of work, I’ve come across a BBL team offering a GB player with reasonable stats in a four year Div I College £6,000 for the season. I’ve had a client except £9,000 for the season just so that he could get on a roster, play, train and then look for work in Europe. I find that very sad and heartbreaking especially when the offer to the client was made via a Coach who “helped him get out to the States” and is paying a Div II american £22,000.
The greed factor is omnipresent, and, unquestionably, that extends to anyone that thinks they can turn a profit. It’s just a little more visible right now in basketball.
If basketball in the UK is serious about changing, it’s time to step up and do something more dramatic and meaningful. It’s time for something that will honestly produce a shifting of the tectonic plates. And as it happens, there already exists a template for that. It’s in just about the last place you’d look…….. Major League Baseball.
Firstly, we need to set up a draft system around the BUCS competition and then market it aggressively throughout the UK. Is this then highlighting the value of education and sport and ticking a box?
Then the BBL teams should be encouraged to invite players that study in the UK on to their rosters. This could then reduce the need for imports and free up the salary cap for home grown talent.
If a player comes out of school, he is free to sign a pro contract with a BBL team and take off for the hinterlands of the farm system (ie: the National Leagues or a renamed Div I D-League). However, if he enrolls at a four-year college or university instead, he shouldn’t allowed back into the draft until he turns 21 or completes his third year. This would mean staying within the BUCS and playing in the National Leagues, honing his skills even further before the push into professional sports. All the while the sport is being marketed through drafts, camps, clinics, trials etc and filtering down to younger players about the need for an education etc.
The idea achieves three mutually agreeable objectives:
-It sends the non-college types straight into their professional lives.
-It fills the college ranks with quality players which not only makes the BUCS game better but also provides a ramp to the farm-system for those who will ultimately be drafted.
-It highlights the best players in the UK and so their selection to the National Teams easier to monitor.
Baseball isn’t basketball, and not everything translates, but this much is absolutely true: The quality of basketball, at its higher levels in the UK has seldom looked poorer than it does right now.
I’m advocating a revolutionary path and I don’t have the perfect answer but at least it’s a suggestion that’s positive and constructive.
Des Williams played for Hemel Juniors and Milton Keynes Cadets before leaving for the USA. On his return he played for Stevenage and a brief stint with the Birmingham Bullets before suffering a career ending injury.
He put into practice what he’d learnt from coaches like Lou Carnesseca, Dave Titmuss, Roger Moreland, Dave Fisher, Dick Barrett and took on the role of Academy Director at Leicester Riders, producing players that went on to play BBL and for the National Teams of England, Scotland and Wales.
One of the original architects of the Hackney Community College Basketball Academy, alongside the great Joe White and Herman Wilson, Williams has dedicated his coaching career to the developing of players into top flight athletes. He reformed the Birmingham Bullets for this specific purpose and is well on the way to achieving his aims.
Image Credit: Qisur
Related posts:
- Junior Williams is STILL a BALLER
- Morakinyo Williams and Duquesne Get Tight Win
- Morakinyo Williams and Duquesne Lose to Temple
- Warwick Cann Talks British Basketball
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{ 25 comments… read them below or add one }
I do find Des Williams’s write-up incisve and thought provoking.Some of his suggestions as to the way forward was therein beautifully stated. Yes,basketball in England is bereft of fresh ideas and certainly needs an immediate overhaul if the sport is to acheive the much desired result! I would just state briefly,what I also think is wrong with British basketball in general and proffer solutions within my limited capabilities.!
First and foremost,some of the problems that have plagued the country’s basketball are not the making of the old guards in the sport.Some of these problems are in fact out of their control.! For instance one,major problem is British public’s stereotype attitude towards football as against other sports. As far as the average person is concern, it is football and nothing else. It is football that you must pay to watch. They are very reluctant to buy tickets to watch any other sport .The point I’m making is that there is no equal level playing field for basketball in England! So where do you start from.? Like Dr Martin Luther King Jr once pointed out “He who gets behind in a race,must forever remain behind or run faster than the man in front!!” This is obviously the dilemma of basketball!
The above stated dilemma cannot be overemphasied,because it goes down the ladder towards every other problems tha is plaguing basketball.Lack of funds to sustain the sport,if people are not prepared pay to watch a good game of basketball. More importantly,it is also not a good incentive for private investment.
There are some solutions to some of these problems,but one stands out as far as I am concern.We need to encourage more private investor participation, which can only occur with good quality and competitive games from our crop of players.This would in turn attract publicity,and hopefully would attract one or two investors! The private sector need to invest in good comfortable arenas where people can come ,watch, and pay for a good match of basketball on a Saturday afternoon!! WE’VE GOT TO RUN FASTER THAN THE MAN IN FRONT.!!
This article definitely highlights some weaknesses of the game in UK today and the suggestions are definitely plausible. Its a great shout!
Many thanks for your comment.
This isn’t the first time I have heard the words “greed” and “making money” when people have talked about basketball in the UK. This is deeply concerning. I would say put the guy who wrote this article in charge. He is obviously passionate and seems to have good ideas. I think a change is and has been needed for quite some time. Saying that there are also sone quality people in the sport who aren’t there just to make a quick buck.
Ha,ha…. I’ll run for office if those that need replacing could be replaced. Thanks for the vote of confidence.
I do get what is being said in the article. Basketball altogether is deeper than the BBL to start with. Its foreign to people in the UK and what makes it so widely played is the fact that is played in high school, like netball with girls but you hardly see people playing pro in that and people paying attention. The BBL was once supported by television and money something i think will grow, but there is no changing the minds of the British governing bodies to put money into something that has not been run well for over a decade. Its all good putting private money and getting private owners to get involved but thats were the problem was before, a private investor can pull out anytime they want, a private investor can do something bright for 10 years and then put basketball into the mess we see now. Its hard to think of ideas, but basketball does get kids off the streets. Look at the US, its a breeding ground for inner city kids. Basketball in general needs to pick up from the youth. The BBL teams need to get involved with the local communities on a brouder level. British players need to give back if they dont want the next generation to suffer the way they have. People need to put back, but its hard, because like the article states, the people that run the show are just there because they are old guys that have the basketball centers, they are in control, they are generally old school, this is how we done it before, therefore this is how we shall continue to do it. There is almost too many problems. As the GB team escalates, basketball stays the same. We say the Olympics will bring money, or will it just bring more ignorance to it, because the more success we have with nothing, could just bring more nothing as it all looks great anyway.
Things need to change, your right, but knowone is willing to give without gaining, since there is nothing to gain why give? People need to take a loss to present a gain somewhere. Like John Amaechi, unfortunately that still isnt being run properly but hopefully he can change that. Look at London, a breeding ground for potetntial athletes, something needs to push and push until the councils governments realise that basketball saves lives and money, it isnt just a place where tall americans throw a ball at a hoop. We need to start look out for the youth, and building for the youth and then the professional teams will follow. You can’t do it backwards..
Sorry if this doesnt make complete sense i just wrote it as if in convo
Yes what des is saying is true but again we’ve heard this before to, and to be honest from what I have heard from players who have played for him, he sounds like a man full of ideas but a half way attitude so should would really be listening to him.
Mr Williams makes great points as do the other people that have left comments, my personal opinion is that there are a lack of role models for young people in the UK game. People will say there are guys like luol deng, ben gordon and pops. But which English kids actually get to meet these players. Answer none! Don’t get me wrong those dudes are making money so you have to respect what they are doing but it doesn’t help the UK game. It helps GB performance program. But the only children you get at those games are children that play basketball or the odd few that have been given free tickets via their school. To get more people playing the children need role models they can see every week and BBL teams do a great job of that don’t they? answer NO! They send out guys that are 10th 11th 12th guys in the rotation to do the bulk of the community coaching can I add at this point many do not have level 1 coaching certificates. They do however hand out loads of free tickets and then the children go to the game and don’t even see the person coaching them playing! Then end up thinking sack this lets play xbox. Oh another brilliant thing BBL teams do is not really give good British talent any reason to want to stay here or even stay in the sport. As Mr Williams piece said there are players that earn £6000 pounds a season if you say the season is 9 months long the player is earning just over £600 a month. I can tell you that working in school as a teaching assistant at level 2 you can earn close to £1000 per month with school holidays and half terms the school year is only 8 1/2 months of actual work a year. What is the incentive to keep playing and dedicating your life to a sport which gives you so little back.
Mr Des William has made some valuable point about the current state of british basketball. The main issues are sometimes so vast and daunting that is seems almost impossible which it is not from my humble opinion.
If you at the quality of the coaching of your young players it is severly low than it should. The fact that you have to go to some outside club to get maybe one or two days of coaching is never going to make young players better. The school set is so so poor that most young people don’t even want to play for them. I would think that this would be a more ideal solution since it keeps the young people in school and they can probably play more often. I have been told by a scout that young players (11 +) should be playing every other day if not more. Settting a sort od coaching system for young player to develop in schools by actual basketball coaches and not PE tecahers not don’t know how to play the game effectively.
Moreover we need something for these young people to aspire to when they finish playing for their school/ clubs. As Des mentioned this could be done have a connections with the BUCS or BBL where you look to be involved in the development of these young people from a early age and let them know that they play in this leagues if they hard work enough. Creating a clear pathway to success for all of those aspiring ballers.
This does not come with out commitment from both the private and public sector. Since it is the 2nd most participated sport among young people why do we not find a way for private company to invest in it because they know people will always play. The market is out there but it is more about finding way for these company to see this and take advantage of.
The UK does love basketball which is evident when the NBA has come down and its has sold out 3 years in a row (I have been to all). We have good players here but need to keep them and help grow a really basketball community where we create a movement together for one common purpose. Also the people who doing the basketball projects at the moment need to find a way to work together and not in isolation.
We need to keep growing and we media outlets to back up as well so people can see all the great work that has been done by the basetball community. Its starts with you, me, us to make it a success.
Ade
‘We need to work together and not in isolation’ is totally correct…
Des
You have interesting ideads and some valid pointsand was very impressed by the work you doing in Stafford but when i read comments on your twitter page: http://twitter.com/BhamBullets
Got stabbed in the back by a player and his parents. The grass is always greener on the other side.
3 years and a player leaves for the Cheshire Jets because they promise him the world. Hope his parents don’t choke on humble pie.
It makes me think are you any better than than the individuals you dismiss. You should be there to guide young players and not judge them when their decsions don’t go your way. It appears that you have forgotten your a coach and not the childs parent.
Carl
Thanks Carl, as the parents concerned we haven’t been able to reply to the comments on twitter so will respond here as you’ve raised it.
Des moved 100 miles away from us and theres been no local training for months, we had followed him loyally and supported him faithfully, some would say blindly, for 3 years with many many ups and downs along the way.
As a parent of someone who just wants to play basketball I was left with no choice but to find another club for him.
The Jets have offered us nothing except an opportunity to train regularly and I certainly won’t be eating any humble pie.
I spoke in person to Des about our plans and also contacted him when we registered, as you can imagine I was extremely upset to find these comments on twitter and have asked him to remove them. Its a real shame he’s felt it necessary to criticise our decision like this, picking up the phone would seem the obvious way.
I had hoped he would wish us well as we do him.
Hi Carl,
Thanks for the comment. It just goes to prove my point about basketball, politics and haters. I have never said that I was better than anyone, I have never held back a players career to suit my own ends, I resent any comment to the contrary and ask you to provide facts…. I know you can’t so hre are a few for you:
It appears you’ve forgotten that I took 8 players from North Wales to play for the U15 Junior Jets at my own expense. Four of them ended up playing the balance of the season for one of the junior teams.
I then took additional 4 players to the Jets U16′s for a series of training sessions and they weren’t wanted, despite being told by numerous coaches that they were?
I took 6 players to NEWI Nets U18′s and paid for the trip out of my own funds, this was so that they could play for a bigger club.
I’ve offered and taken players to Colwyn Bay Bulls (run by Mike Burton’s brother), Llandudno Lightening, NEWI Nets, Mold, Flintshire and Everton Tigers. Please tell me where I made a mistake because if taking players all over the North West is wrong then I stand corrected.
I’ve received an email from Ros Owen stating that I was wrong to post a comment on Twitter about Rhodri going to the Jets. I’m afraid to say thatRos got the wrong end of the comment and I wasn’t refering to her or Rhodri…. Once again the good old rumour mill grinds away and gets it totally wrong.
While on the subject of Rhodri Owen, no one at the Jets was interested in him when he was a skinny 6’2″ 13 year old but now he’s a 6’7″ Guard with a season playing in Div 4 Mens with a 12ppg average behind him, the Jets have come out of the woodwork! His mother told me that he was going to the Jets and I fully agreed with her that it would be the best thing for him to do. The fact that he’s signed for the Jets doesn’t surprise me at all and I knew it would happen. I wish him all the best and will be watching his career with interest.
I’m no better a person than anyone else and I’ve never stated that I was. I’m a developer of basketball players with good fundamentals and I have many chinks in my armour but I have a passion for the sport and often put my money where my mouth is. I would never stop any player from moving on to a bigger club and I actively seek to do it. The next time you wish to stir things up, please get the facts absolutely correct and remember this thread is about improving the state of the game, not a personal attack on you, me or any players.
Des
I am a 42 year old nothing special bloke from London that has enjoyed Basketball at a number of levels and has played National league up to a few years ago. I have a young boy who is in the process of taking his first steps on the basketball ladder. My comments were not a personal attack anything but. I strongly believe in a number of points with regards to your article but its quite clear by your that your aims, goals and ethos are not the same as mine.
The work you are doing in the area of Staffordshire is commendable but in your response you quote what you personally have spent and the time and effort you have put in. Ros who clearly is the parent of the child concerned has just reinforced my initial concerns about the differences between you and I around aims, goals and ethos in the development of children in sport. If I was asked if I would allow my young boy to participate in you program unfortunately I would say no, but that would not stop me wishing you well in the furture and the development of you program. Sometimes you have to agree to disagree and not everything is a personal attack.
Carl
Brilliant stuff, lets get into action and make a change before its to late!
Hi All,
I’m not involved in the sport of Basketball at all. I am a full time Fencer, working with Des to reach my goals and ambitions within my sport. Des has helped me out so much since we’ve been working together, which is impressive considering his limited knowledge of my sport.
I would advise that an individual with the skills and vision that Des has is valuable to all sports and his thoughts and opinions should not be overlooked.
Regards
David Gregory.
There are a number of misconceptions here about the sport in this country. Whilst some of his suggestions are sensible they are unfortunately undermined by the divisive history that Mr Williams seems to leave in his wake wherever he goes.
Within the comments there are some risible suggestions : the suggestion that the BBL clubs should get out into the community more is about as ill-informed as it gets : one BBL club this year delivered a hoops4health program (full afternoons attendance) to over 150 schools over the course of the season. That is 5 players (including the stars, not just 10,11 & 12) going out 3 times a week, every week. overall BBL players made contact with over 30,000 primary school children last year : putting every other pro sport in the shade.
In relation to salaries players will be offered their market value. The reality is that 4 years at a low level div 1 college with moderate numbers does not give you a divine right to be a pro. Neither does possession of a British passport give you a deveine right to be paid more than you are worth. Professional basketball is an extremely tough job : protectionism serves neither the paying public or the player : if you are worth more than you are offered go get a job somewhere else : if you are not offered a job for what you believe you are worth then maybe you are not worth it?
On one hand people are keen to say the level of the BBL is low compared to where it has been, on the other hand all these British players returning from America are not good enough to play successfully in it? So which is it? because pro sport is about winning and I can guarantee that if the players coming out of US colleges were as good as the americans then the clubs would be paying out the money for them.
As i say the comments re the draft proposal etc are interesting albeit extremely hard to work and the basic thrust of this piece is certainly not without merit. But a heck of a lot more is going on now than people actually appreciate to try and cement a professional basketball league in this country in our most damaging economic period for a generation. And when you consider 2800 people (all paying) packed Northumbria university last year for a BBL trophy semi final which featured 12 British players (Bridge, Defoe, Lockhart, Smith, Flournoy, Reinking, Jones, Lawson, Sullivan, Thomson, Toney, Aliu) playing for the best two teams in the league (at that time) and subsequently braodcast on Sky it becomes difficult to justify the prognostications of doom stated above.
Some interesting comments above.
2,800 spectators? I can remember when we had well over 4,000 spectators at some games in past years, and regulalry had over 1000 at league games.
I read in an old magazine (1987) entitled “Basketball” that in that year the -average- attendance at National Legue games (as the BBL used to be) was 894. Would someone please let me know what the average spectatot attendance is now, some 24 years later?
BBL clubs have to go into the local community in order to not only fund their player salaries, but, of course, to try and popularise the sport within that community. Player salaries are not low solely because of the quality of player, but because there is verey little sponsorship within the sport. If the sponsorship was greater, then a better quality of player might, assumingly, be signed? I know that way back in the past, clubs hired American players at salaries that exceeded £25,000 (plus house, car etc) because nearly all clubs had good sponsorship – perhaps another indication of how the sport has declined.
It is a sad fact that if one just speaks to the first person met in the street and asks him or her a question about basketball, a blank look might welll be seen on that person’s face. Speak to a person in the street in, say, Spain, and you would be likely to start up a conversation. Such is the difference of appeal of the sport to the general public between the two countries.
Culture is probably the biggest obstacle to the improvement of the sport in this country., There are many other factors of course.
I recently went to the Spanish junior U18 men’s championships, won by Barcelona. Over 2,000 spectators were watching – and cheering – at the final. How many spectators were at the England U18 finals?
On the way to Vigo, where the championships took place, I drove through many Spanish towns and villages, the vast majority of which had fulll size sports complexes. The championships were held in two relatively small towns, both had huge sports complexes for use by the general public.
Des was quite correct when he made his comments re junior players in this country.
In a recent article I wrote, a copy of which I sent to various members of the EB and GB, I apologised for constantly suggesting that our junior players were not so far behind those in other European countries, in particular Spain and Serbia. I was wrong, we are a very long way behind (not necessarily the fault of the players always). The article was extremely critical of many aspects of the sport and, I am sure, was not very well accepted by those to whom it was sent. Indeed, one member of the GB Administration wrote back and simnply asked to be taken of my “e-mail distribution list” !!!!
As far as international basketball is concerned, most especially at junior level, the league structure, organization and the mediocrity standard it encourages, is a complete and utter irrelevance. Until a league is structured and implemented that encouragesand demands meritocracy with a really high standard of competition, throughout the season, we will not be able to field a national team capable of playing at international level.
I do have one, quite simple question. Why is it that basketball is now so much “weaker” than it has ever been?
I have one simple answer : it isnt : See Dave Elderkins recent quotes as to the standard of the games – he has been involved since the 80s so his opinion has to be valuable.
whilst the same time that 4000-10000 people were attending some venues in the past : very few of them were paying. And whilst 4000 may have attended some venues (although not many) at the same time 150 were attending other venues (see Sunderland for example in the 90s – from personal experience).
whilst Americans were earning upwards of #25k that is because the vast majority of UK players were part time : it was like club cricket : the few top british players congregated at the same few clubs making the league less competitive and the bottom clubs relied on the americans to do everything
we are now in a position where every club has at least 7 full time players and British players are actually better than a number of the americans. The best team in the league last year was all UK qualified. When did that ever happen before?
Attendances are up and down depending upon the history and promotion of the club but best guesses (and I attended all venues last season)
Newcastle 1850, Plymouth 1100, Glasgow 900, Sheffield 800, Cheshire 800, Leicester 700, Essex 600, Guildford 600, Worthing 500, Worcester 500, Mersey 400, MK 400 (new venue)
of these figures Cheshire, Leicester, Guildford, MK and Worcester are close to capacity for their venues, Plymouth and Glasgow at about 75-80%. Worthing have dropped out. And everybody pays and due to the appropriate venue size clubs are not losing money hand over fist (the club to have major financial problems last year played in a 7000 seat arena, go figure)
Its unfortunate but the people who are most critical of the sport in this country (and of the BBL) are the same people that rarely attend games or communicate with clubs about exactly what it is that they do. Which is not a solid basis for such over-riding and damning opinions.
I assume that the final paragraph above is meant to apply to me?!!!! (I take absolutely no offence as I have often made similar remarks in the past.:) )
I am not sure of David’s coaching experience in basketball, and I readily admit that my own observations of present day English basketball is now limited.
However, I am, or rather was, heavily involved in the game for well over 30 years,from the 1970′s, all my experience being with a club called Crystal Palace, (with the exception of one year when I coached Southgate ladies) and nearly all of my coaching experience being gained in America. I also very frequently speak to many people who were, or still are, very very heavily involved in the sport.
Of the games I have attended over the past ten years I can honestly say that most of the games were extremely disappointing, exctiting possibly if the scores were close, but very poor playing standard. No player who compares to the likes of Jimmie Guymon, Mark Saiers, Larrie Dassie, Alton Byrd, Peter Sprogis, the Scantlebury brothers to name but a very few.
I can not recollect seeing many (BBL) clubs in recent years playing, competitively in European competition, which was the case so many years ago when clubs were competing in the Eurpean Cup, Korac Cup, etc.
( I can remember the days when it was possible to see youngsters with the names of players on the back of their shirts, something I have not seen over recent years.)
“England” also hosted the World Invitational Club Basketball Championships for many years and which became known for a really high standard of international basketball competition.
David’s comments are related to just a small part of my own comments, namely those to do with the BBL and spectators. Although I strongly disagree with many of his comments, I will just agree to disagree as it would take far to long to defend my position!!!!
The standard of the BBL is now very poor, especially when compared to the likes of the ACB or LEB in Europe. If the truth is a criticism, so be it, but I would suggest that anyone with any reasonable experience of coaching basketball will agree with this.
Why is it that the funding has been massively reduced by Sport England/UK? Surely the comments made by the funding Body for making these cuts, must resonate to some extent throughout the sport?
Why are clubs now finding it almsot impossible to gain adequate sponsorship. (In the 1970/80′s clubs had little difficulty attracting sponsorship. (I admit being televised on a weekly basis by a – terrestial – TV station helped)
It is all very well to look at a glass half full, rather than half empty, but I still ask the question, what is the average number of spectators that attended BBL games this season? Somebody must have a definitive answer?
I too have 30 years involvement : Maybe a different perspective though. Fan/player/ref/coach : but primarily in and around top flight basketball in the UK as opposed to the youth set up. I actually agree with virtually everything that you say re youth development : and the biggest failure of the BBL is to get talented kids on apprentice contracts and offer them an alternative route to becoming a pro. It is something we are gradually trying to address at Newcastle.
Firstly I dont disagree that the very top individual player standards were better in the past (people like Byrd, Bontrager etc). That is down to two factors
1. There was nowhere near the level of competition from pro leagues in other countries. Spain has 4 pro divisions now, France similar and on and on. Even lower league clubs in Spain are funded by their local authoritys ( We researched an LEB gold club last year through an ex player who was playing there and found that they had a 1.1 million euro player budget – compare that to the BBL which varies between 60,000 and 160,000). That budget was not made up from sponsorship or fan support but the fact that the local authority pumped in 800,000 euros and provided facilities free of charge. For them it was a civic pride situation. That situation does not exist in the UK where clubs have to pay exorbitant rates for facilities. Also that competition (4 or 5 leagues) didnt exist in the 80s in relation to attracting players. Comparing us to them is apples to oranges on that basis.
2. The majority of teams were part time then. As such a vast percentage of the budget could be spent on two players who would be head and shoulders above the rest. (apart from the top two or three teams where the top UK players congregated). Nowadays each clubs budget is spent on 7,8,9 players far more evenly. That makes for a deeper and more competitive league than there was in the 80s.
I have provided the average number of BBL spectators per team in the post above : the numbers arent official but you can set some store by them, I visited every venue last year and have spoken to people who did so multiple times to help me put them together. The total I got to is 9150 across 12 teams making an average of about 760. The teams with the better attendances are the longer established clubs and venues. The average is brought down by Mersey (poor infrastructure) and MK (venue issues) and capacities of places like Worcester (600), Leicester (900) and cheshire (800). All could pull in comfortably more with better venues but good 2 sided venues (like for instance Granby Halls and crowtree Leisure centre) are no longer built and have gone to development (granby) or rack and ruin (Crowtree).
Players income wise : £6000 per year sounds pretty meagre. Add in accommodation (£500 per month), car and petrol (another £3000) and the club paying tax and national insurance then that suddenly becomes a cost of £15-£16000 for the club. and only for 8 months of the year. So £6000 in hand can be the equivalent in the real world of £24k an annum. Which rather changes the perspective.
re sponsorship : I am afraid the 80s and the 2010s are totally different animals. football is now omnipotent, more so than it ever was. All minority sports have suffered, not just basketball. Football eats into everything. But even when teh league had sponsors and clubs had big sponsors (playboy Tv leopards anyone?) : they were attracted by the very things which made the game financially unsustainable : the big arenas, the glitz, the lighting etc. What attracted them was not the sport but the unsustainable glamour.
finally europe, teams have played in europe, Brighton had an excellent season in 2002, Guildford went 0-10 in 2008. (Of course Guildford also went 0-16 in 1992 when Kevin Cadle was coaching them). But the reality is that every team since 1990 that has played in Europe has subsequently gone bust (and normally as a direct result of those european adventures).
Last year Newcastle had the opportunity to look into Eurochallenge. Initial group stage 6 games. Likely opponents in Russia, Ukraine and Croatia. Estimated cost of the whole venture £70k. On what would be basically an ego trip as we know we would not be in with a prospect of winning it. With no sugar daddy to fund it and no basic wish to spunk away money that
a. we didnt have
and
b. we could far better have invested in our community coaching schemes and our academy.
and certainly no wish to end up like every club who has tried in 20 years, insolvent within 36 months.
So much of what you say has validity, but the part relating to the professional game is I am afraid overly simplistic. Which is not necessarily a criticism as you can only base opinions on what you know.
As I have said I agree to disagree, although not, by any mean, with everything said above. There can be no doubt whatsoever that the BBL is of a lower comparative standard than it was and that, overall, basketball in England has sunk to a very low level, for many, many reasons.
One of my original comments was that I always “rebelled” quite vociforously against those like Peter Horn, Harry Keats, and many others, who said that the game will never imrpove to the requisite level to adequately compete in Europe; my argument being that we did start to compete in Europe. Now, however, I have to admit that they were probably correct.
If we ever do manage to compete at a “Division A” level, it will be in the far distant future. It will take that long to change the “sporting culture” of the country, which, in my opinion, is the major factor to influence the game.
No reason of course for all those who give so much (of their free time) to the game, to stop their valuable effort.
The level of European basketball in the past was certainly very high. Europe has just improved dramatically, although the same can not be said for this country.
To say the competitive strength of the leaue now is stronger than in the past is most certainly open to debate. The playing standard now is most definitely lower even though it might be competitive.
Clubs were unsustainable without sponsors? Possibly true, but, there were sponsors. Would Unicaja, Barcelona, Partizan, Panathinaikos, etc. be sustainable without the sponsorship? Why do they have sponsorship if it is not for the lights, the glitz etc.? True there are clubs in lower leagues that are supported by their local authority (England? Mmmmm!!!) but the majority, especially in the premier leagues have and rely on sponsorship. It is all very well for clubs to be “sustainable” but , I would suggest that for English clubs to play at the top European level is virtually impossible without sponsorship
Average spectators 760? Apparently in 1987 it was over 800. For whatever reason it would seem, as suggested, that in the intervening years general public interest has not increased.
Surely football years ago was of huge interest and was without doubt the number one spectator sport – as it is now. Finance is of course, now much greater, making even more attractive. Also not all minority sports have suffered, and certainly not to the same degree as basketball.
I believe it was John Amaechi that said the BBL was an amateur league trying to be professional. True or not, it remains a fact that the BBL still has an uphill struggle in more ways than one..
While we all (the whole basketball community) seem prepared to accept the status quo, then not much will ever change.
Certainly we can all base our opinions on what we know.
An accountant, Last calculates that the total income for the Division One clubs this season is around £800,000 and estimates their expenditure at £1,250,000. “Other clubs are in over their heads, laying out cash to win the championship. But only one team can win the championship. There’s one winner and lots of losers”.
Above quote was taken from an article that appeared in 1986.
In 1986, we witnessed a sum¬mer of discontent in the NBL. Plans for a Super League sprouted in the form of a decla¬ration that the league would be set up a year earlier (for this season).
Arguments for and against were lost in the smoke, but after much sabre-rattling the pro-lea¬guers were quieted. Some quarters said the whole affair had been a publicity stunt. Others said it was a practice run for the real thing the following year. Whatever the reason, the los¬er, once more, was basketball.
Fans were left bewildered by the conflicting reports and the TV companies – the lifeline that en¬courages sponsorship, audi¬ence and money – wondered whether the sport would ever stop squabbling and get its act together.
There were suggestions that basketball should be run similar¬ly to sports in the US, with a commisionnaire appointed to make decisions and three assis¬tants who would be responsible for the day-to-day running of the various segments of the game. One would investigate disci¬plinary matters, the second would oversee the administra¬tive side and the third, an ex¬perienced salesman with know¬ledge of the media, would hand¬le promotion.
A further post could be cre¬ated to encourage the develop¬ment of the game in schools and colleges, so that English players might have the opportunities of their American counterparts.
While these are by no means original ideas, it still remains to be seen whether some innova¬tive individual can come up with a blueprint and integrate it into the system.
Complacency and the attitude that ‘we’ll muddle through’ are totally unacceptable, as are pro¬tectionist attitudes towards new ideas.
This was frighteningly ev¬ident in the warding off of the Super League. Then the stark reality of survi¬val in the business world be¬came only too evident in the col¬lapse of Division One side, Worthing. This was a contributing factor in the sale of Manchester Giants to neighbours Manchester Un¬ited. Then, in the final hours, of the close season, news broke of Crystal Palace moving to Uxbridge, a lifeline for Palace who would have started the season without a sponsor.
The key to survival is spon¬sorship. The days of the all-be¬nevolent sponsor are near enough over. As industry and the large companies cut back on the ex¬tras, the first thing to go is prom¬otion, through backing other ventures.
It is strange that pub¬licity is the villain and the hero of the piece. Publicity is important, not only for getting the public interested but also sponsors, because it promotes the image of a grow¬ing sport that is a viable finanacial proposition.
Obviously, the best medium is television. TV should be invited to tele¬vise the sport, but not necessarily in the format we have seen in the past. (Games played in an almost empty arena, games won by 40 points)
One trend that has emerged is the involvement of other sporting institutions. Manchester United and Portsmouth have proved that football and basket¬ball can live together.
But the light at the end of the tunnel for most clubs must be the generation of local interest in their club. To encourage local support, foster good relations with newspapers and radio – if they don’t know what is going on then how can they respond?
Keep infighting and monetary battles to the confines of the club boardroom – nothing wrecks the club’s credibility like mismanagement.
Involve the club in local events such as carnivals, fund- raising schemes etc. and, at matches, present the game in an exciting form with music, cheerleaders, etc.
Supporters clubs are excel¬lent mediums for encouraging support, as are well-designed programmes and fan club fanzi¬nes. All are relatively cheap forms of promotion but very effective.
On-court presentation is just as important. While a team cannot be expected to win every game and trophy, fans must re¬member exciting games played in good spirit and competitively.
Cash in on football’s loss by fostering the family image – long term, it is the youngsters who hold the future of the game.
Only by presenting a healthy, exciting sport can clubs expect to keep existing sponsors and introduce new ones. The pro¬cess will not happen overnight, but then steady growth is the key to long-term success.
At Rebound, we think the sport has tremendous potential provided the various facets pool their resources, take a long hard look at the current state of the game and present a united ob¬jective of making basketball the game of the future.
(Taken from the basketball magazine “Rebound”)
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